Excavating The Pit

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Excavating The Pit

GodlyPerfection
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This post was updated on .

Excavating The Pit


Easy one today. This is some back story into The Pit... courtesy of Randy 355. It is always great to see the insight into a map's development and The Pit happens to be a very popular one so this is a treasure in and of itself.

Here is a question that can help get your reply started:

- What are your opinions on The Pit?



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Re: Resource #10 [10/16]

Nitro
I love the Pit, while it created some standoffish matches, it also created some freaking amazing matches when H3 was the prime MLG game on the circuit. Some will definitely disagree with me about the Pit, but I am certain the had a match or two of the it where the felt like a boss. My best map that I created in Halo Reach, Offset, came a long way from my original iteration. I probably spent close to 30 plus hours on it when I was really focused on it. What things I took most from the Pit was the three way routes from one side to the other. Also I used similar style bases. Other than that I chose to to do my own thing to make it feel like mine. Why I don't think the Pit should be remade in Halo 4, I think there needs to be a spiritual successor to it.
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Re: Resource #10 [10/16]

external memory
In reply to this post by GodlyPerfection
I never felt like the battle for Rockets was all that dynamic, but if you just derp it out and go for it the chaos of it is pretty fun. Where the flow really slows up in eddies is at Snipe 2, the corners by Regen/Turrets for me. I always was curious what might happen if you were to connect it to Flag 2 balcony, and/or the corner of the plasma rifle spawns (on either side of the bridge to sword room) and there was a llft of some sort to get from Flag 1 to Flag 2, only without the front window. Something like that, some way to make a sniper up there more vulnerable 360 around, but I guess that connecting to Flag 2 would actually add more area for a sniper to hide, too. I think of Anchor 9 and how even though the scale is the same there's rockets but no snipes on the map, maybe because there's so many long lanes across that are relatively safe despite 4 or more ways up to 2nd. The U-shaped pit on Anchor 9 also feels much more treacherous than Pit's due to sightlines only really being blocked by the open door, and the fact you can't really hide from someone on 2nd balcony in the Anchor bases the way you can from someone on Platform on the pit.

I favor the pit more because it's not stacked, which is something they had at first but threw out, it seems.BTW, did that pumping station concept eventually get repuposed for Powerhouse? Because that's definitely what I was reminded of. Anyway I'm kinda curious to see what Mindhunters was all about now.
EXEM
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Re: Resource #10 [10/16]

InnerSandman
In reply to this post by GodlyPerfection
One gametype and map variant I remember which was fun was Prison flag, where when you died, you spawn in this outside area which was like a prison, and you were stuck in there until either the end of the round or the prison teleporter was unblocked, and I've always enjoyed camping in the sword room during infection. :D
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Re: Resource #10 [10/16]

Randy 355
In reply to this post by GodlyPerfection
So, I just get the points right?

...

Okay, fine. I had initially read this to help further my Reach remake of The Pit, but I had actually learned a lot more from it in terms of overall level design. I am actually fascinated with all of the little 'nitpicky' changes they had made to specific areas. Changing these specific areas had an enormous impact on how the map played. This is something I need to do more with my original maps. Even if I like something a lot, I should try more approaches to the same idea. Even other people's smaller ideas are worth giving a shot.

I am also intrigued by all of the different ideas they had for the setting. We are a bit more limited on that front with Forge, but our imaginations can stretch our map's feel in a big way. You make a map in the cave; is it just a cave map? I sure as Hell hope not. Maybe it's an unobtainium mine? Maybe it's the center of an operation to make every volcano in the world go off at once. Forget that. It's a makeshift train station for a post apocalyptic world. We are full of these ideas, and it is a huge part in our design process. You are the Creator, and Forge is your instrument.
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Re: Resource #10 [10/16]

LieutenantNasty
In reply to this post by GodlyPerfection
I have enjoyed the Pit many times in the past. It was built back when symmetrical maps where more the just sitting across from each others spawns shooting. On the pit because of the walls between the spawns at least one of the teams had to make a move to get the match going. This is also one of them less is more examples with only 4 main routes into the enemy side, and only 3 main structures on each side lead for some easy call outs and some really intense team based game play. Hopefully all of the symmetrical map builders in the contest can fallow its lead.
Play Hard Start to Finish
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Re: Resource #10 [10/16]

Valiant Outcast
In reply to this post by GodlyPerfection
Don't hate me for this, but for a long time I rather disliked The Pit. I have no idea why. I has everything that I love and try to put in all my maps: shortcuts, pro-tricks, and highly varied combat.
I do like The Pit now (not sure when or why that changed).
I would love to see a faithful remake. The Pit encouraged a type of gameplay that was almost missing in Reach.

A bit of advice for anyone attempting to remake The Pit (Randy):
Don't forget anything; not the shortcuts, not the jumps, not the gaps in those walls that let you throw grenades into the sword room. If you do, people will jump all over you for it. Players don't like when something that they love is left out.
I am neither the Judge or His jury; only His witness.
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Re: Resource #10 [10/16]

Dr D04K
In reply to this post by GodlyPerfection
First, The Pit is probably my all time favorite FPS MP map (at least top 3), so I love learning about this map.  Second, this is one of my all time favorite interviews from Bungie, its hilarious and informative, and its about one of the best maps ever.  I love this quote, "The street was a failure. So we said, let’s not use a street. Let’s make it a wall."  They weren't afraid to scrap the core concept of the map and literally do the opposite.  Also interesting to note how carefully they tuned the elevation differences between levels, which is something I think is often overlooked in forge maps, everyone tends to do the standard block heights because its so convenient for using the ramp pieces.
Gamer tag: "Dr D04K" (thats a zero and a four)
RP Portfolio
Maps:
Wishbone Alley
Dosado
Infinity Garden
Epicurean
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Re: Resource #10 [10/16]

ForgedExodus
In reply to this post by GodlyPerfection
Ah The Pit. Slightly below Narrows in my All time Favorite Map List.

It is beautiful in its copious amount of detail to everything. The jumps, the holes in the sword room wall (oh the triples I picked up from those xD) and above all, the balance. Never have I found myself in a one sided game on The Pit. The game moves around the map and all over the place, and definitely reminds me of the West Side Story now that I think of it. (You know, without the training facility part).

But this article brings up a very valid point. Don't get attached to your map. I seem to follow that rule like a groupie. I've completely redone the layout of a map around 6 times? Before finally coming to the final version of it, where all I do is change sight lines and aesthetics.

Good read.
Breaking the Limits, Without Breaking the Rules.
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Re: Resource #10 [10/16]

Randy 355
In reply to this post by Valiant Outcast
Valiant Outcast wrote
A bit of advice for anyone attempting to remake The Pit (Randy):
Don't forget anything; not the shortcuts, not the jumps, not the gaps in those walls that let you throw grenades into the sword room. If you do, people will jump all over you for it. Players don't like when something that they love is left out.
Well, people have really taken the Reach remake, Cyberdyne, very well. On the classic version I got almost all of the jumps, got all of the shortcuts, and I even put in those grenade holes (How could I not! I love those!). I stride to be most accurate, though forge can sometimes get in the way. If it weren't for my limitations in Reach's Forge, I assure you it would have been perfect. But, I am plenty satisfied with what came out, and the H4 one will be even more accurate because of it.

I do recommend you download Cyberdyne. Let me know what you think yourself! =)
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Re: Resource #10 [10/16]

AtlasisShruggin
In reply to this post by GodlyPerfection
This was a fun article, a lot of banter and good history on the pit. Finding out the name came from the show The Wire made me smile and had an 'ah ha' moment when they mentioned Cyberdyne, finding out why Randy used the name. Way to do the research.

The lighting section was interesting knowing there original plans of lighting one side and the twisting it to make it more interesting. I can see this happening a lot when we forge in 4.

Also when they mention the version with streets and rooftops, I love how the design solution was to convert the streets to walls. I've always wanted to see a map with a street level that maintained rooftop combat. Sounds like Carney and Cotton feel the same way with how they left the article :)
"This dread born of risk is not the opposite of joy, or even of quiet activity and calm enjoyment. It transcends such oppositions and lives in secret communion with the serene and gentle yearnings of creativity."
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Re: Resource #10 [10/16]

AtlasisShruggin
In reply to this post by Valiant Outcast
Valiant Outcast wrote
Don't hate me for this, but for a long time I rather disliked The Pit. I have no idea why. I has everything that I love and try to put in all my maps: shortcuts, pro-tricks, and highly varied combat.
I do like The Pit now (not sure when or why that changed).
I would love to see a faithful remake. The Pit encouraged a type of gameplay that was almost missing in Reach.
I agree, I never like The Pit. The more and more I learn about map design though, the more I respect it.
"This dread born of risk is not the opposite of joy, or even of quiet activity and calm enjoyment. It transcends such oppositions and lives in secret communion with the serene and gentle yearnings of creativity."
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Re: Resource #10 [10/16]

P1 Mario
In reply to this post by GodlyPerfection
The redesign from the original concept of a street just floored me.  Looking at The Pit I would have never guessed that center wall didn't exist.  It's the defining characteristic of the Pit, and it's far different from the original defining characteristic.  I guess I'm just impressed.  As someone who gets very attached to the design of my map, it's a good lesson.  I've already reworked my first design after reading this.
~Ask not why I get to be Player 1.
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Re: Resource #10 [10/16]

Gnappy As5A5sin
In reply to this post by GodlyPerfection
Ah man, The Pit is stellar, and it's been remade so many times- and that's just by Randy! I always figured the reason was because it takes the standard for CTF and adds to it.

Ctf always works with a minimum of three paths with varying degrees of exposure that are distinctly different in terms of time. In the case of the pit we really have four, with options. Rockets, Camo, the Street, or the Long way. Sure, for the street you have the upper portion that connects from sword or the lower under that bridge, and from the long way you have OS and Sword, but in terms of cover and time they pretty much balance out.

Having those path options and balancing them so they interact is what ctf has always been in my mind. What is wonderful here is that the space is varied enough for strong Slayer combat as well.

On Skype Wolfpack Dragon wrote
"i came on the radio so I had to mention it"
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Re: Resource #10 [10/16]

Solo XIII
In reply to this post by GodlyPerfection
I'm not a very big fan of The Pit. I think it's a terrible Slayer map that falls to pieces when put under the stressful conditions of tournament settings (no radar, highly skilled players, prize pool). Even objective games are hardly something to write home about. The crate jumps that MLG added to the map help preserve some maneuverability, but the bases do not feel like bases to me. It's more like a hole in the ground where your flag spawns. I also do not like the attics, as they felt incredibly contrived. They were like a revamp of the already broken attic on Terminal.

With that said, there are many aspects of the map that I do appreciate:

The geometry of the map is perfect. I love the clean, angular walls and the lack of random debris. The apparatus is in perfect maintenance, and there is no region of the map that is "broken" or "run-down." I also think the color scheme is fantastic. The Pit has one of the cheeriest atmospheres in any Halo map ever, with its bright yellow pads and green paneled hallways. Even the concrete is relatively light, with thick strips of red and blue paint. While the two sides of the map could have shown some better color differentiation, I never struggled to tell which side of the map I was on.
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Re: Resource #10 [10/16]

DarkJediMasterX
In reply to this post by GodlyPerfection
Oh my God! This is my favorite map and for me to see a deeper inside look on the development was just awesome! Seeing how designer go about making their maps has really opened my eyes a lot more and I have learned a lot. I really enjoy these resources! keep them coming!
Halo 4 walkthroughs, lets plays & more http://www.youtube.com/user/darkholegames

For daily game news go to http://darkholegames.net/
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Re: Resource #10 [10/16]

external memory
In reply to this post by GodlyPerfection
Shouldn't post say 10/15? Might get confusing, especially with the two-day 4 point resources now.
EXEM
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Re: Resource #10 [10/15]

SmartAlec13
In reply to this post by GodlyPerfection
I absolutely loved The Pit. A very well designed map. Its really cool to hear the backstories of how they designed maps, where the inspiration came from, and what sort of changes they made. It helps make you realize they use a really similar process that we forgers use.

I personally never liked Objective on The Pit (I never liked objective much unless it was big team) so I was more of a fan of slayer on it. I still remember getting my first double-no-scope down the long hallway.
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Re: Resource #10 [10/15]

Spiteful Crow
In reply to this post by GodlyPerfection
The Pit is such an excellent map.

And it really does have the best rocket spawn battle area ever.  It was great because the ramps gave you that elevation change, you could throw grenades long distance, you could sneak for the camo and try and go through that side (though that became a nade tunnel too) or you could race for the other team's sniper and try and win that way.

So many options and it never quite went the same two matches in a row.  The weapons also worked perfectly for callouts.  You knew exactly where somebody was just by saying, "two guys at our sniper" or "get to camo spawn, need help" etc.