Forge playlist previews

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Forge playlist previews

external memory
This post was updated on .
As you may already know, we'll finally be getting Forge map integration into MM playlists early the 21st; even the on-disc Forge variants haven't been put through public MM paces. To start, six Forge maps will be playable. All of them were either built from the ground up – or at least tweaked – by the community.

Here's links to threads*, so you have some image & video previews and info about the creation process.


Garotte*(original) by MythicFritz: Infinity Slayer, CTF

Simplex (original) by Big Papa SaLot: Infinity Slayer, CTF

Despair (original, Reach port) by SecretSchnitzel: Infinity Slayer, KOTH

Shutout (Lockout remake) by Big Papa SaLot & Nitrooo: Infinity Slayer, SWAT

Scythe (original) by PA1NTS: Infinity Slayer, SWAT

Relay* (variant) by FyreWulff: Infinity Slayer

*couldn't find any posts from Mythic about Garotte :/ , or Relay variant's changelist posted anywhere.

Official feedback threads up for the maps from today on at least through the rest of the week.

Congrats to the forgers who got a spot in/shot at the first rotation. Looking forward to plenty more.
EXEM
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Re: Forge playlist previews

external memory
343 said back in the 1/9/13 weekly update that this playlist/hopper is intended as a “Forge Test” playlist: "Help us test these maps by providing feedback and reporting bugs that will assist us in getting them ready for Matchmaking!"

So, they haven't said anything about when exactly the integration of the fixed versions of these originals will happen.

They also haven't said whether MM integration will be 1. for the life of online support of the game, 2. a set time interval, or 3. whether their run will be dependent on how much these maps are voted for after regular playlist integration. For the sake of giving a fair shot at new community maps coming up for a vote in the regular playlists, I'd assume it'll be scenario 2 or 3.

No word yet either on the next round of testing community maps, to go into Slayer/Objective playlists, or the others. With Majestic on the horizon for the end of February, and Spartan Ops likely ending at least a week or more prior to it launching (if it's delayed til March) I'm guessing not until April at the earliest. 6 weeks after Majestic, like this round being 6 weeks after Crimson. Or May, if you go by the 12 week cycle from 4's launch to end of the public Forge map testing.
EXEM
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Re: Forge playlist previews

noklu
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In reply to this post by external memory
As I haven't stayed incredibly in touch (read: at all) - can you tell me the behaviour of 343 to community maps? Is it just lack-lustre and they put no effort in it beyond token attempts?
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Re: Forge playlist previews

mrgreenwithagun
In reply to this post by external memory
They have essentially doubled the cartographers' group, they have setup a new forge test playlist where community maps are moved to for community evaluation, and the idea is that the best from there get into MM (though they can choose to skip the playlist if they find a map they really like I suppose). It all looks positive at this point. Bravo was hired by 343i and is in charge of this whole thing as I understand it. Some of the additions to the cartographers are solid forgers in their own right. The only complaint I am seeing is that the Infinity Slayer settings and random variety of ordnance from OD/POD are terrible and there is a desire to return back to the Halo 3 game play. I think it is becoming increasingly clear that Halo 4 is not Halo 3, that maps designed for Halo 4 are going to be different in that they don't design around weapons drops and map control, but around POD/ROD/IOD concepts and will simply play more random/variety/chaotic. Forgers need to think more like Halo 4 than Halo 3, and some of them are having trouble making the adjustment.
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Re: Forge playlist previews

noklu
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In reply to this post by external memory
Okay. Gotcha. I've just seen some dissent on these forums about how 343 have been handling it, and was wondering.
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Re: Forge playlist previews

GodlyPerfection
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noklu wrote
Okay. Gotcha. I've just seen some dissent on these forums about how 343 have been handling it, and was wondering.
Dissent? The feedback for the playlist as a whole has been largely positive. MUCH better than what it was in reach. As for Ordnance Green, we are slowly looking to setup a standard among the maps... something a little more static. There is a POD solution being tested that wasn't able to make it into yesterday's update and the Dubs maps are setting up a more standard IOD system rather than a random drop like in default maps. If I'm correct all of the default maps in the dubs playlist will be following this standard. The system is evolving for sure.


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Re: Forge playlist previews

mrgreenwithagun
In reply to this post by external memory
@Godly, Is there a new article on the updates? if not, can you tell us what was updated?
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Re: Forge playlist previews

GodlyPerfection
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In reply to this post by external memory
If I remember correctly there were no updates for the forge test list. Stuff we were testing didn't make it in in-time and there was a lot of focus on Grifball and Dubs.


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Re: Forge playlist previews

noklu
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In reply to this post by GodlyPerfection
GodlyPerfection wrote
noklu wrote
Okay. Gotcha. I've just seen some dissent on these forums about how 343 have been handling it, and was wondering.
Dissent? The feedback for the playlist as a whole has been largely positive. MUCH better than what it was in reach. As for Ordnance Green, we are slowly looking to setup a standard among the maps... something a little more static. There is a POD solution being tested that wasn't able to make it into yesterday's update and the Dubs maps are setting up a more standard IOD system rather than a random drop like in default maps. If I'm correct all of the default maps in the dubs playlist will be following this standard. The system is evolving for sure.
Hey, I jumped in randomly to some random threads, hoping to get a sample of how things were happening. Then I looked at a few other random things. Of what I saw, enough of it was negative that it impressed on me. Perhaps my sample size was too small to get a proper feel for it.

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Re: Forge playlist previews

external memory
In reply to this post by mrgreenwithagun
GodlyPerfection wrote
As for Ordnance Green, we are slowly looking to setup a standard among the maps... something a little more static. There is a POD solution being tested that wasn't able to make it into yesterday's update and the Dubs maps are setting up a more standard IOD system rather than a random drop like in default maps. If I'm correct all of the default maps in the dubs playlist will be following this standard. The system is evolving for sure.

I'm really interested in hearing what this Ordnance Green (? cartographer lingo ?) and other work on Ordnance and its settings is all about.

I'm also curious what sort of feature upgrades KF was talking about that we might see down the line, whether they're long the lines of either:

1. simply variant of the gametype in MM
or
2. a coded edit changing the gametype by adding new features uneditable on the user end
or
3. a coded edit with new dials editable on the user end
and/or
4. a coded edit expanding the options on ordnance in Forge that players can place


We know that instant respawn for this Slayer gametype will be getting a tweak to force respawn after a duration, an unfortunate oversight with the game's launch, <a href="https://dl.dropbox.com/u/31455487/halo-4/custom-game-option-browser/latest.html#!/root/Gametypes/Slayer/On-Disc/Respawn Settings!show-old=since-h4&show-removed=true">which will actually make the slider work as it's intended.


In terms of the scenarios above, I wonder about possibilities for additions to user-end options regarding Ordnance in Forge and Custom Game Options:

Could 343 add some knobs and sliders for Random Ordnance, for example, in the Infinity Ordance settings, to control not just how often RO drop but how many drop on each?

Or, in Forge, a setting to change # of base spare clips [not always 4] on any ordnance?

Also in Forge, what about a toggle on the timer for recurring Initial Ordnance to switch between "RO static style/dynamic-style" timer?

I've submitted my query to Bungie's consumer complaints department, and I am expecting an answer within 10 days.
EXEM
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Re: Forge playlist previews

mrgreenwithagun
In reply to this post by external memory
He was referring back to me when he wrote "As for Ordnance Green..." He was missing a comma after Ordnance.

The question had to do with randomizing the ordnance versus weapon drops used in earlier titles. There are a lot of people that don't like randomizing power weapons and their drops and that is causing 343i to reconsider. But I doubt it will ever change. Halo 4 IS ordnance drops...
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Re: Forge playlist previews

GodlyPerfection
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mrgreenwithagun wrote
He was referring back to me when he wrote "As for Ordnance Green..." He was missing a comma after Ordnance.

The question had to do with randomizing the ordnance versus weapon drops used in earlier titles. There are a lot of people that don't like randomizing power weapons and their drops and that is causing 343i to reconsider. But I doubt it will ever change. Halo 4 IS ordnance drops...
You obviously don't understand that 343i is attempting to adapt to community feedback. Don't just assume things won't change. If they don't change it is for a reason, where things can change and are best to change then they will. But sometimes things have to take time for various reasons.


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Re: Forge playlist previews

mrgreenwithagun
GodlyPerfection wrote
mrgreenwithagun wrote
He was referring back to me when he wrote "As for Ordnance Green..." He was missing a comma after Ordnance.

The question had to do with randomizing the ordnance versus weapon drops used in earlier titles. There are a lot of people that don't like randomizing power weapons and their drops and that is causing 343i to reconsider. But I doubt it will ever change. Halo 4 IS ordnance drops...
You obviously don't understand that 343i is attempting to adapt to community feedback. Don't just assume things won't change. If they don't change it is for a reason, where things can change and are best to change then they will. But sometimes things have to take time for various reasons.
I just saw the news about the new playlist having significant changes. I am shocked. Halo 4 was developed around Infinity Slayer and all the settings that they are undoing for the new playlist. This only tells me that they are looking at the possibility that they were very wrong in making the changes in the first place. After the populations shift, I wonder if they will change the same settings across the board?
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Re: Forge playlist previews

external memory
This post was updated on .
mrgreenwithagun wrote
This only tells me that they are looking at the possibility that they were very wrong in making the changes in the first place. After the populations shift, I wonder if they will change the same settings across the board?
EDIT: If that's all it tells you, then the *other MM changes, alongside 2 competitive Doubles playlists dropping next week, announced in this week's bulletin should come as a surprise.

1. Haha, oops, that's embarrassing.

2. Anyway Ordnance Green with a Gun,
I'm guessing no, we likely won't see settings changed across the board. Here's why I think so: though there's been a very vocal element that is unsatisfied, there is still a decent sized online population, considering the context of the rest of the online choices, not simply FPS.

Now the studio is up to full capacity, and the entire team's back and seriously looking at sustaining the game. It's up for debate I guess, whether they are admitting wrongdoing for adding loadout customization, and a POD/ROD system built around it, by just now adding the playlist.

But consider that had they launched a "Team Competitive" playlist or series of playlists alongside Infinity Slayer no one would be pointing and laughing that 343 was completely off base with the POD/ROD setup, because you'd still be seeing population in those playlists.*

The mistake was not launching with IS, so much as launching with Slayer Pro as their main "classic Halo" offering. This, and a glaring lack of classic options, besides the bugged instant respawn and other hiccups that didn't help its image either.

If Halo 4 were more games in one, building on that legacy laid in the previous titles, the XBL numbers would be higher now, not if it were exactly the game that one player wanted. Because you're talking about ditching the whole customization system, something people were extremely hyped for. Just as hyped as many were a bit disgusted (but pragmatically realistic), and still holding out hope for a more classic Halo experience in MM alongside it. If Halo were less games in one, and pleased only the latter, it would still alienate the former. Did they make an executive decision, in crunch, to push the new, and go back later to patch in the old/classic in time to bring back the folks that felt let down? Probably. Yes.

Here's the thing: at the core, regardless, POD in Infinity Slayer and ROD in IS and Objectives really seem fine as long as there's another playlist where you have recurring predictable ordnance, forced loadouts, etc. And a mix of a more competitive variety of gametypes to be ironed out prior to the launch of CSR.
EXEM
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Re: Forge playlist previews

mrgreenwithagun
In reply to this post by external memory
I suspect you are correct. I suspect that we will see dual playlists like bloom/nobloom on Reach. I am not looking forward to having two games in one.
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Re: Forge playlist previews

external memory
Personally, from a design standpoint, I kind of agree on the two games front, versus a single main game.

By two games in one vs. one game I mean regardless of whether the game ships with enough support for custom games to emulate whatever style of game people want to play, something I think everyone sees as an inarguably positive feature.

It seems like there's now two types of multiplayer: the story-embedded, less competitive gaming leaning Spartan Ops-linked one, the preset, no-loadout one.

And that this is becoming something like the new Social / Ranked split, except now Social has almost a completely different feel and setup than Ranked will, unlike the previous incarnation.

Personally, I'd rather have two MP games in one than not even get half the MP game I wanted to play. The question is whether people who dig the customization only dig it because it's there, and wouldn't have experienced it otherwise as they don't play other shooters that have it, or genuinely wanted something like this to be introduced to the series. It's too late to really know for sure. But of course the argument that people were hyped about things like customizable loadouts in Halo, just because of the novelty or even controversy factor in this franchise isn't lost on me.

But I think the question of "has 343 learned anything new about how to design the core MP component of a Halo game" is still on the table. It's still yet to be seen whether Random Unpredictable Shit in Halo (RUSH™ 343i) will be significantly scaled back in the next installment in the vanilla game.

It's still yet to be seen whether they will shift their design vision in this new trilogy for MP in response to vocal negative reactions against them and mass migration away from Halo 4 on XBL.
EXEM