Resource #4 [10/9]

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Resource #4 [10/9]

GodlyPerfection
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This post was updated on .


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Re: Resource #4 [10/9]

A 3 Legged Goat
This post was updated on .
I am just blown away by this Impact map. I love the aesthetic and the new forge pieces look amazing. Also, we FINALLY get moving forge objects! It's truly incredible what 343 and Certain Affinity were able to do with Forge. We thought Reach forge was great back when it was revealed, but THIS looks truly wonderful.

The most interesting things I noticed is that all of the pieces look much simpler. They are unique and detailed, but they are also of the same cohesive aesthetic and they do not have hundreds of intricate lines, like a 4x4 flat in Reach did for example. This should definitely help us with framerate, though I anticipate new challenges due to dynamic lighting.

The only things I'm a little disappointed with are the central building being built into the environment. I suppose this will help for people who build off of it, but I also imagine it getting in the way. The other thing is that Random Drops are standard, meaning you can only set initial ordnance to be fixed, and then all other ordnance will be randomized. I would have preferred the option for static drops in customs, but we'll have to see what this system employs before I make that assumption. I'm not necessarily complaining though, as the rest of the Forge reveal looks phenomenal.

I kinda don't even want to go into Multiplayer or Spartan Ops at all now. As soon as I finish the Campaign, I'm jumping into Forge to start working on some new maps. I have a few unique ones planned for Impact.

Also Ray, here's a Youtube Link for that video:

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Re: Resource #4 [10/9]

Solo XIII
In reply to this post by GodlyPerfection
We finally get to see some H4 Forge info; Been waiting a while.

The objects themselves look very clean, and I'm sure everyone noticed the slowly rotating "Generator" object that ties in nicely with the article yesterday about movement attracting the eye. I can imagine placing one of those generators at key locations in the middle of your map will become pretty standard, so hopefully there are other cool gadgets so that the generator doesn't become over-used.

Not to sound overly negative, but I am a little disappointed with the lack of color in the on-disc variant for "Impact." While the objects seem to blend with one another a lot cohesively than in Forge World (they appear to be made out of the same materials), they are relatively bland in coloration. White and gray seems to be the theme, and I would like to see what kind of options we will have in terms of color.

Here's hoping for a splash of paint.
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Re: Resource #4 [10/9]

deathxxrenegade
In reply to this post by GodlyPerfection
magnets and object lock....THANK GOD!!!!!!!!!!  That in itself would help ALOT of maps (including my own). That can eliminate (at least should) all z-fighting issues that were common eye sores in Reach. Escpecially for those of us that like to build Race maps. I agree with you Goat on one thing for sure.....campaign first....then forge...
To command the past you control the future. To command the future you conquer the past.    

Kane
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Re: Resource #4 [10/9]

A 3 Legged Goat
In reply to this post by Solo XIII
Solo XIII wrote
We finally get to see some H4 Forge info; Been waiting a while.

The objects themselves look very clean, and I'm sure everyone noticed the slowly rotating "Generator" object that ties in nicely with the article yesterday about movement attracting the eye. I can imagine placing one of those generators at key locations in the middle of your map will become pretty standard, so hopefully there are other cool gadgets so that the generator doesn't become over-used.

Not to sound overly negative, but I am a little disappointed with the lack of color in the on-disc variant for "Impact." While the objects seem to blend with one another a lot cohesively than in Forge World (they appear to be made out of the same materials), they are relatively bland in coloration. White and gray seems to be the theme, and I would like to see what kind of options we will have in terms of color.

Here's hoping for a splash of paint.
Many others agree with you, including myself. The map is named "Relay", and I do agree that it looks very bland. I couldn't distinguish any sides of the map. I like the new aesthetic, but I hope there is some form of coloration other than lights. Colored objects were definitely one of the best additions to Reach.
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Re: Resource #4 [10/9]

Nitro
In reply to this post by GodlyPerfection
I am just wowed!! the space environment was unreal. The shadows the dynamic lighting casts are just plain awesome. I am hoping on the same lines as Solo, a splash of color would be nice, that or the addition of textures. I'm hoping to the third/maybe fourth environment is a Convenant theme. Curvy purple forge world would bring an entire new feel for forging. Do you think there is a possibility of changing the intensity of the dynamic lighting? Probably not, but hey its something to wish for right?

I think they are harboring a little much on player trait zones, but why aren't they showing us more of those moving objects. These pieces are going to make a novice forger look like pro. Hope we get to see more before Nov. 6th.
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Re: Resource #4 [10/9]

P1 Mario
In reply to this post by GodlyPerfection
DId I hear him correctly on the "reverse grav" line?  About 4:10.  Because if so, a high, girlish scream may just emit from me.  Maybe.

On a more confirmed note, the player traits boxes have some interesting applications...  The first thing that comes to mind is the fall damage modifier.  You could drop that over the whole map if you wanted to.  Potential problem - what happens if custom maps make liberal use of a no fall damage zone, but other matchmaking maps don't?  This could be very confusing to the player.  At the same time, ODST drop spawns are now a possibility, as are long man cannons, even if they get wonky.
One thing I will be doing for sure is going lighter on the soft kill barriers in lieu of a PTZ with shield decay.  That way, as you approach the edge of my map, instead of flashing large, angry, panic inducing countdowns at you, I can just deal damage to you.  Ideally, it will still cause panic and ensure players stop moving that direction, but immersion won't be broken as badly.
What strikes me most about PTZ, however, is the lack of visual identification on the areas.  That seems to be left entirely up to us to deal with.  I like what Condemmed/Uplink with the static fields, but the closest we've got is shield doors.

What kind of ways are you guys planning on setting off PTZs?
~Ask not why I get to be Player 1.
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Re: Resource #4 [10/9]

Carpetfresh
In reply to this post by GodlyPerfection
I just watched that video on the Xbox dashboard.  I like what they are doing but didn't forgers ask for more?  I like the magnets and the duplicating feature
but what about a flip feature?  I did see rotation as a main category but I think it will be like the past (using whole degrees on a single object).  It is time consuming
in Reach to sit there and place everything at 17.0 X, 145.3 Y, 25 Z just to have two things (Col walls and other things) not line up anyway.  Hopefully these magnets work like a charm.  I love the idea of 4 different forge worlds (or is it locales?).  More variety is the spice of life.  I also like the idea of there being forrunner objects and UNSC objects.  Hopefully will get covy too.  One thing I do fear from what the video said is that each locale is going have specific types of blocks.  Like the space map, might be UNSC only.  It's a start and maybe with the 720 we can get even more.    The lighting is a nice new feature but the should've focused more on the mechanics instead of the prettiness.  Those lights look to be about the Unreal Engine 2 looking?  Why can't they at least compete with Unreal Engine 3 in terms of contrast and shading in the lighting?  Did anyone see if there is a setting to create lights?  This looks to be tons better and way more user friendly than ever before.  
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Re: Resource #4 [10/9]

Randy 355
In reply to this post by GodlyPerfection
Forge..... in SPAAAAAAAAACE!

Seriously, this is practically free points, Godly. There is so much! The dynamic lighting looks phenominal as always, the forge pieces seem to all be returning from Reach, but with an all new, cleaner,  consistent  aesthetic, and that pre-built map they showed on Impact looks very nice as an example.

Now, I'm taking it with a grain of salt, but did anyone hear what Kiki said regarding the lock feature? "This gets super, super useful when you're working with 300, 400, 500 forge pieces in a single scene." That's either a slight exaggeration, or great news. The map they built in that demo uses 5,400 out of the 10,000, and it looks intricate and sizable enough.

I want to see more. I am still curious about lights, and I saw FX in there. I hope that the FX are actually worth using this time around. If they change the look of the map in a clean and visually playable way, it will change how two different maps on the same base map feel in great measure.
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Re: Resource #4 [10/9]

AtlasisShruggin
In reply to this post by GodlyPerfection
Watched the video a few times to try to catch as many details as possible. First and foremost, CONES are returning! Haha

Here's some of my findings:

The menu under structure looks like this (or at least what we could see)

Impact (This is the map specific menu) 100 pieces at $10 each
Building Blocks
Bridges and Platforms
Buildings ($150 each)
Decorative
Doors, Windows, Walls (Still only 50 pieces at $10)
Inclines

There was only one coliseum wall in the menu and we still only get 50.... This was a disappointment for me.

The station corridor had an option for object color, so that function will be returning

I too really like the reverse gravity option. It can be used in place of or to supplement gravity lifts. That way players won't get stuck in lifts and grenades will hopefully not either. Though we don't know if gravity will affect grenades.

IMPORTANT
Dominion is a separate category from objectives. This might mean we can set up all of the gametypes through basic editing. The convenience of this is not to be overlooked!

Also Important, the light source on impact seems considerably lower in space then on Ravine. This means objects will be lit differently and at different angles depending on the map you choose.

The video had only a few disappointing things for me... almost everything they've done is right so far.
"This dread born of risk is not the opposite of joy, or even of quiet activity and calm enjoyment. It transcends such oppositions and lives in secret communion with the serene and gentle yearnings of creativity."
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Re: Resource #4 [10/9]

MythicFritz
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by GodlyPerfection
There were a few things I noticed with the gravity volumes.

Making them visible or invisible stood out to me. There wasn't a color option, but if they change color according to team (which setting team is an option) imagine defining a maps areas with them. Set the volume to not affect anything, surround red teams base with the volume, and set it to red team. Or create a weenie with one; have a giant red tube shooting up into the air.

They also have their own channels, a la teleporters. So you don't have to modify the settings for each volume. Just modify one then make each additional volume the same channel if you want the same settings.

I'm also curious why the gravity volumes would compound when stacked together. Can you only go to a certain point with the settings but then stack them to punch it to 11 or something? I've been trying to think of a situation where I'd want zones to compound.

And was it just me or was jumping into player mode from editor faster than the last forge videos?

Edit: If the render is faster, maybe it has to do with the number of pieces rendered.

Edit again: The gravity volumes are fixed dimensions, 5x5 or 10x10. Trait zones' dimensions can be user defined but are always invisible. There goes my weenie.
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Re: Resource #4 [10/9]

FuN Fortress
In reply to this post by GodlyPerfection
I'm very, very impressed with what I've seen in the video so far, but I do have to agree with Carpetfresh on one of his points; I do hope there's going to be some kind of 'mirror object' function included, because Forge has always had these great building pre-fabs that only work in a rotationally-symmetric environment. Being able to mirror things would be nice... anyway.

It's been touched on before, but I would like to reinforce the fact that these much simpler-looking objects are going to be much, much, much better for the Forge. We're all aware that Reach's gray, glass-heavy objects could be very taxing on your console if not used correctly (leaving pretty much half of the objects to gather dust at two frames an hour in the corner because of how little they were used), and that they were all gray... DARK gray. There's much more to it than just the potential performance improvements though, I feel.

For one, these simpler objects mean we'll really be able to draw attention to certain walls, platforms, or areas with some well-placed detail. Where nearly every Forge object in Reach had detail out the ass, objects in Halo 4's Forge seem to be, for the most part, rather 'naked' looking towards their 'centers', and in a very good way. This means we can really take advantage of decorative objects, placing them in ways that will allow players to REALLY be drawn to them. And, with the objects being a much more forgiving shade of gray (Hell, they almost look ivory), I imagine we're going to have some much better experience using lights on our maps, as well as using object color to denote where we are and what we should be looking at.

Again, much more than just helping with our framerate, I feel that these simpler (and familiar) objects are going to help our 'eye-catching' more than we could ever hope to achieve in our Reach.
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Re: Resource #4 [10/9]

Der Flatulator
In reply to this post by GodlyPerfection
Looking good, Impact looks great, and that map they show in the 4-way split screen made me want to remake Lockout!

Magnets are going significantly increase the rate of map construction, going to be awesome.

I hope they've fixed the Rotation snap issue.
As far as I can tell, the Halo Reach forge uses "Euler angles" to represent the orientation of an object. i.e. Yaw-Pitch-Roll. This is subject to "Gimbal lock" which is when two axis become oriented in the same manner. Difficult to explain, so:
.

This is almost definitely the reason that rotation snap sometimes breaks, when 45 degree snap becomes 90 or even 180.

This could easily be amended by representing the orientation using "Quaternions" which is four numbers, correlating to an axis (x,y,z) in which the object 'points', and a third value representing the rotation about that axis. Quaternions can undergo spherical linear interpolation, which means that rotation is always smooth, in any angular direction.
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try: command not found
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Re: Resource #4 [10/9]

MythicFritz
In reply to this post by GodlyPerfection
Because it happens to every object no matter how you place them, I always thought Reach's rotation wiggles were from a loss of data when the file was compressed for saving.
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Re: Resource #4 [10/9]

Brucer42O
In reply to this post by GodlyPerfection
Magnets yo! Been hungry for some decent forge info, this really hit the spot.  A space map in Forge is so obvious I have to wonder why it hasn't been done until just now; we are space-marine-super-warriors let's own it. Impact looks like a landscape from a Stanley Kubrick film, the utilitarian modernist form and color scheme of the architecture really sets it apart from the previous Forge World even though most of the pieces are the same.

I am a bit curious about the magnet feature.  I saw a "strength" setting in the menu.  What exactly could the mean?  Does it just allow the piece to more easily snap into position?  Or could it allow one to magnetize multiple pieces "strongly" and move them all together at once?  Would be nice to be able to re position an entire built map at once.

@40 seconds in the preview, when they split to 4 screens...is that the third forge map in the upper right hand corner?  It looks..."Urban" or kinda rusty, not like the Ravine or Impact. Or is it just my imagination running away with me?




=]
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Re: Resource #4 [10/9]

InnerSandman
In reply to this post by GodlyPerfection
Well looking at the video, I was extremely happy that there are 3 different environments for forge and that each has their own different palettes. Another thing I noticed was that Relay seemed like a mix of Foundation and Derelict to me, which was nice. Another thing about the different palettes is that this could inspire people to have their maps have more of a story to them unlike other games.
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Re: Resource #4 [10/9]

external memory
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by A 3 Legged Goat
A 3 Legged Goat wrote
The other thing is that Random Drops are standard, meaning you can only set initial ordnance to be fixed, and then all other ordnance will be randomized. I would have preferred the option for static drops in customs, but we'll have to see what this system employs before I make that assumption.
True; I noticed that besides initial, random, and objective contextual ordnance drops there are also Weapons, Human; Covenant; and Forerunner.

While one could assume these are exactly like classic weapon spawns with timers as per usual,and no waypoints, the optimist in me says that 343 has considered how to approach designing a single map around classic vs. new waypointed weapons flexibly for use in multiple game variants without needing different map variants for each. Allow me to explain:

Let's imagine that these non-ordnance weapons when placed would function in applicable gametypes much like frag or plasma grenades that we've seen, on Adrift for example, which are (within a certain proximity) waypointed yet seem non-random and recurring; essentially waypointed classic static weapon spawns if you will.

My hope is that I'm right about those grenade spawns being non-random and static, and that these other palettes are how those grenades are placed: through the "Weapons, X..." rather than "Ordnance Drops" pallette, and in default Halo 4 settings such weapon placements would be waypointed as the seemingly static grenade spawns seem to be on Adrift and other maps we've seen. I hope I'm making sense...

So, imagine in custom game settings that you can turn weapon waypoints off to more closely mimic old-style weapon spawns, as well as disable map ordnance entirely in custom settings. Imagine also that you can limit the "Weapons, X" palette objects that will spawn in your custom game to "all" (or map default), "grenades only", or "none".

Then, anything placed from these separate weapon palletes could behave entirely like static, non-waypointed weapon spawns we've seen before if someone wanted to create a "classic" style game variant.

So assuming this scenario is true, for vanilla halo 4 style weapon spawn game variants, the ordnance drops you've placed separately around your map could remain and simply be switched "on" as before, with static weapons on map toggled as "grenades only" (only grenades that have been placed but not non-ordnance drop weapons from the "Weapons, X" will appear in game), versus toggling them to "map default" (for classic slayer) or "none" (for gametypes like Flood where no static weapons or ordnance appear on map).

I know I've probably repeated or reworded what I'm trying to hypothesize enough to confuse and contradict myself; does anyone think they get what I'm trying to suggest, and if so, do you agree that this could be a possibility or nonconvoluted and valuable enough that 343 might have built it into the game setting / map design relationship? What those separate "Weapon, X" object palettes suggest, and what I've seen of the grenade spawns on the 343-created maps in gameplay, are the only two things I'm claiming as basis for this very optimistic assumption, I realize. I'm really curious to see now what we get to play with in custom settings as much as how we'll place objects specific to different gametypes.
EXEM
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Re: Resource #4 [10/9]

Der Flatulator
In reply to this post by MythicFritz
MythicFritz wrote
Because it happens to every object no matter how you place them, I always thought Reach's rotation wiggles were from a loss of data when the file was compressed for saving.
That's another problem, due to the way it compresses data (a) to decrease the space it consumes on a server and (b) to decrease the position/orientation bandwidth transmitted during multi-player. That's what results in precision loss when you save a map.
The problem I was referring to is when you rotate an object by a fixed snap, and it 'refuses' to rotate by the specified snap, and jumps to 2 or 4 times the snap value due to the axis lock.
derflatulator@reachingperfection ~ $ $do || !$do ; try
try: command not found
derflatulator@reachingperfection ~ $ sudo rm -rf /
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Re: Resource #4 [10/9]

Gnappy As5A5sin
In reply to this post by GodlyPerfection
Now THAT is a hell of a reveal! They just keep giving us more and more fun toys to play with. I can't wait to see what sort of silken sexiness I can milk out of a palette that is all white. Glad to see that we can delete based on palette as well, it will aid on those pesky nights where peope drop weapons onto a map you're working on and never remove them, them you have a fullclip rocket somewhere one your 1v1 map... Is anyone else stoked to recreate some Quake maps with that space area? Seems like it would be the perfect backdrop for a great many of those maps, and coupled with a good PTZ you may just be able to recreate the gameplay on those maps without a gametype!
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Re: Resource #4 [10/9]

Dr D04K
In reply to this post by GodlyPerfection
Looks good, but I guess I always want more.  A lot of my concerns have been voiced by previous posts, the very gray palette being the highest concern.  I was also a little disappointed to not see more of the generic pieces in action that are actually useful (I'm already sick of the tunnel maps). I was encouraging that the floor on relay was all forge and it looked pretty good.  But when the lady acted like the magnet feature was going drastically to open up new creative possibilities, I about laughed out loud.  If someone couldn't line up a bridge with a door way of one of the prefabbed buildings, and they quit as a result denying the world their map, lets be honest, they're doing something wrong.  All in all, pretty much what I expected, anything less would have been a disappointment.  Here's to hoping there are magnet points on the sides of that spinning generator so we can make custom moving pieces....
Gamer tag: "Dr D04K" (thats a zero and a four)
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