THFE Far Cry 3 Video

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THFE Far Cry 3 Video

mrgreenwithagun
So I came across this THFE video for Far Cry 3 and I thought how cool is this? I told my wife I wanted this for XMAS after seeing the video. But it makes me wonder how Halo forge took several steps backward while FC took leaps forward? My first love remains Halo, but this looks like it has the potential to sap my time from forging for Halo... =)
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Re: THFE Far Cry 3 Video

SmartAlec13
Looks so much better than Halo4. Makes it look like we are forging with trash.

 Although I know with Far Cry 2, the amount of stuff I could do was overwhelming
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Re: THFE Far Cry 3 Video

external memory
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by mrgreenwithagun
Seriously guys? I wouldn't put it past the YouTube comments from people who don't know what they're talking about, but I'm disappointed hearing this from people that seriously forge. I mean have you even tried to make a custom building in this game?

Far Cry has a map editor if by map all you mean is a combination of rolling terrain and buildings. Everything else is nice, but it's mainly aesthetic window dressing. Can you even make caverns and tunnels with the terrain editor finally, or can you still only dig trenches that you have to cover with prefab shit?

Alec, if Halo's forge is trash because of a lack of terrain editing, then Far Cry's editor is useless for a lack of pieces or consideration for building varied interior spaces. Which from the first instances of map editors, like with Doom, was the entire point. It's easy to fall back on exterior procedurally generated landscaping when the whole gimmick of the gameplay is turning into a werewolf and running through the forest to claw someone to death. Try supporting any other kind of gameplay with that editor and it'll fall pretty flat.

All the above being said, and considering that Impact is functional as little more than a skybox, a terrain-edit feature in Halo 5 would be great. What would not be great would be replacing the philosophy of multipurpose architectural forms with a hand-holding palette full of nothing but buildings and scenery, barely usable for much beyond what they were obviously intended to do, in this case, be connected by a series of catwalks and/or ziplines.

TL;DR: Where's the tools to make your own architecture?
EXEM
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Re: THFE Far Cry 3 Video

SmartAlec13
In reply to this post by mrgreenwithagun
They are different styles of games though. Have you ever played Far Cry or similar games? You don't give a shit about the maps layout. As long as it looks cool, and isn't completely terrible. Whereas when you play Halo, the spaces are more intimate. Because they are so varied between forerunner-human-covie architechture, and then not to mention the broad range of environments, you get a feel for that map. You remember Snowbound cause its that snowy map with covie buildings. You remember the layout having those tunnels and such.

 Whereas with Far Cry, its either jungles, plains, or rocks. The buildings are all that general style. Obviously this is a bad thing like you say, cause its just the same generic stuff over and over. But thats how the game plays. Theres a lot more details with random barrels and cones and tiny things like that, that help make the map look better. But when you put barrels or cones or small details like that in Halo, it just looks weird. Unless its an infect map, or they completely fit there, they look so out of place.

What I am trying to say is yes, Halo is great because we can create our own architecture, which is what matters in Halo maps. But Far Cry does a whole lot better at fitting to their needs, which is completely creating the map with tons of tiny details.

Far Cry has a better map maker than Halo, because of a few things.

-AI, not a major thing but pretty cool.
- Terrain creator. I hate the terrain 343 gave us. Sorry to say it. You can't tell me that by limiting the boundaries we can work in, it will force us to be more creative. Cause I know that if we had a terrain editor like far cry, we would see so much better from forge.
- Weather. This is so cool.
- Time of Day. This would be great. Especially since Halo4's "Next Gen FX" looks so bad. Where did Halo3's Gloomy go.
- Grass and trees. Why can't we just place trees. This would make so many sweet maps possible, from being able to make forests or even indoor parks.


 Don't get me wrong. I dislike most of the pre-made buildings in Halo4's forge, and usually end up turning or flipping them at an odd angle to just use one peice of them. But if we had the sort of tools that Far Cry has, we could make such beautiful maps.

TLDR:
-Building Blocks are good
-Premade buildings are bad for halo, good for far cry.
-Terrain Editor + extras is what we need.
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Re: THFE Far Cry 3 Video

SmartAlec13
In reply to this post by mrgreenwithagun
And you can't deny that Halo4 is a step back from Reach. More like a step sideways. The magnets, locking items and duplication are good (except when magnets mess up). I <3 building blocks. But it took some weird, almost backward steps. A giant forerunner building, but only UNSC styled objects? Not a single larger flat area to forge? Removal of staple Halo gametypes (and sweet new ones) like 1flag, assault, stockpile, race, headhunter? Tons of default structures that are annoying to work around? Come on.
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Re: THFE Far Cry 3 Video

external memory
In reply to this post by mrgreenwithagun
Sure, there are a lot of flaws, and issues that makes Forge feel rushed this iteration. I just feel "the grass is always greener" and "familiarity breeds contempt" definitely applies here. Also if you're hungry for an apple because you haven't had one for awhile, there's no need to compost a fresh orange, just because it's not the best orange you've ever had, or you're tired of peeling your fruit.

Sorry, it's just that the initial sweeping generalization of Halo 4's forging tools seems really unfair, and embrace of Far Cry 3's editor seemed fairly uncritical, the way so many of us were when we saw the first demos of Forge. All the above you said in your reply was well spoken and I appreciate your candor, but despite its mistakes I felt the forge in 4 isn't trash, and the additions for expedited iteration, the more unified aesthetic, the porting of Reach's geometry and additional palettes, however slim some might be, are still appreciated.

Custom game options are an entirely different issue, and I'll admit that there was a giant step backward in that department. The way that fileshares and searches have been left by the wayside for launch is definitely embarrassing. But Forge's issues seem more like a gain with a mildly frustrating and unfortunate sidebar, at least in the custom map department.

When it works properly and the time and effort are put into forging, Halo 4 custom maps can look really beautiful and cohesive. They don't feel like editor maps, and do so without falling back on lots of scenery, and that's an accomplishment in my book; let's be honest, any viable functioning game that provides some enjoyment and novelty should be an accomplishment from our perspective, regardless of the games we choose to invest our time and money in.

Of course I admit there are opportunities for improvement, and I'd love to see terrain editing alongside the architectural legos that the franchise has expanded on since Sandbox. As you say, it's also a question of whether the editor itself can help sustain the game as far as what's available in it; despite being limited with terrain, we could use more smaller maps in MM, and the lighting and aesthetic improvements to forge will make addition of community maps to MM and competitions more welcome than they were in Reach, I'd wager.

So balancing what the end user gets out of 4's Forge against the entirety of the tools the Forger has to work with, I'd say on the whole the editor n Halo 4 is positive. There are just so many other disappointing piecemeal flaws with 4 to complain about that add up to a big pile that I'm reticent to throw Forge on that pile as a net loss; I guess I'm just defensive about the one thing that I feel has, or had, the best chance to provide continued enjoyment and investment in the game at the moment.
EXEM
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Re: THFE Far Cry 3 Video

SmartAlec13
In reply to this post by mrgreenwithagun
I disagree with your final statement. I feel like their main mistake was the areas they gave us to build. Obviously like you said, letting us make our own buildings is the main thing that drives Halo4's forge. Really it is the only thing. I have been looking at peoples maps recently, and I would say 90% of them don't even use the natural terrain. Almost every map on Ravine is built floating off to the side, or attatched to the rock face. I have seen one or two build on the main area, and not a single one inside the forerunner building. Erosion is a similar story. Most erosion maps are floating over the lagoon. I could count on my fingers the amount of maps I have seen inside the griffball court AND the outer hilly area put together. Impact is even worse. People may build the map on the asteroid, but its only for setting; they still make their own floor. Impact is literally just a giant skybox.

 Thats the biggest forging failure. Compared to Sandbox from Halo3? We could make tons of stuff, and that was back when phasing and floating were actual processes. Every map made looked natural because the objects fit with the terrain, and all 3 areas were used in the forge. Honestly they should just remake sandbox. I loved it.

 So yes, with the new tools of magnets, duping and dynamic lighting, we can create our own maps. Too bad 90% of them don't actually use the natural terrain. Bungie knew what 343 just fails to do. They know what the community wants when it comes to custom games and forge. They understand that Forge is a map maker, and you need good terrain to make a map. Not these hills on Erosion, not these slants and annoying default buildings of Impact, not this giant building that doesn't match the object pallet on Ravine. But somewhere large, somewhere flat, somewhere that the objects actually make sense.

What I want is for 343 to either make better terrain, which Bungie did damn well, or give us a terrain editor. I don't even care if we don't get a terrain editor, I just want some nice places to forge in like Sandbox or Forgeworld. Cause otherwise, the 3 maps we have are really just 3 different skyboxes.

Note: Not saying it is impossible to make good maps on the terrain, but that a majority won't use the terrain.
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Re: THFE Far Cry 3 Video

mrgreenwithagun
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by mrgreenwithagun
@external... firstly, thank you for your engaging thoughts. I think your view is very valid, but I don't agree, not for my purpose or interests...

I did not understand that the palette on FC3 was already stocked buildings only and that you could not get creative. But when the palette on Ravine is useless as it clashes with the forerunner structure that dominates the canvas, it isn't fair to say that you can do more with H4 editor. You can do more, ya - make more trashy looking maps that lack cohesion with the canvas. If you are in to that.

The point of the editor that I am looking forward to is experimenting and creating maps that demonstrate level design. For example, playing with elevations, creating different approaches for different play styles, creating different terrains with varying complexities and obstacles. While you may say that there isn't as much creativity, I think there should be plenty to explore level design concepts in general, especially since you can actually adjust the terrain itself.

I have an idea for a map that would be the first map of mine that purposefully played on elevation, but I am struggling with Impact to make it come out of my head and into a real, playable map. This editor clearly would allow me to make it very quickly on any scale I wish. But most of all, I want to make a map that has a really natural feel, not a blockish feel. I want a map that looks like it was publisher created, not forged.

You can be creative with the H4 blocks - but that is all they are, blocks. They can offer greater architectural variety, but they are still blocks. While you may have some impressive level design concepts expressed through new and varying architecture, the appearance (which is far more key to a person's interest than most give credit) will remain lacking. And the terrain will not offer the flexibility that I yearn for...

Now I would change in a heart beat if the terrain on Halo was adjustable even to a little degree, say you could raise or lower a dozen points and store those coordinates and changes in elevation into the map file (x, y, z, h < 1kB each). But it is, to say the least, frustrating to have an idea and no where to implement it because the landscape is too high, too low, or slopes all wrong or in the wrong direction.
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Re: THFE Far Cry 3 Video

mrgreenwithagun
This post was updated on .
So it seems that the XBOX imposes limitations on how much you can forge onto a Far Cry 3 map compared to most PCs. It is sounding like I need a PC copy of the game to make my maps, and an XBOX copy of the game to play them...

Do you remember where people used to say to bungie, just let us submit our maps to a single community playlist and let the community play them all and grade them, let the best float to the top and move into regular MM? That seems to be the way Ubi allows FC3 forgers to submit their maps- at least that is how I understand it from a video they posted on YouTube. And that is how it was confirmed to me by one of the FC3 forgers.

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Re: THFE Far Cry 3 Video

Dart3rocks
In reply to this post by mrgreenwithagun
solution Farcry 3's terrain/weather/etc. + Halo's Forge options - the probs(some lighting/ precision editing) + Possible Pallet Upgrades(ex. A forest pallet with tree-bark looking walls would be cool) = BOOM! WINNING!
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Re: THFE Far Cry 3 Video

mrgreenwithagun
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by mrgreenwithagun
Okay, so I got FC3 for XMAS and I played with it for about one hour in map editor mode. If you are familiar with Blend or UDK, I think it is safe to say FC3 is half way between those and Forge. FC3 map editor allows you to create terrain in both elevation and skin, but with much greater ease than Blend. You can change the time of day to the minute (it has a nice sunset scene), the level of cloud coverage and storm (rain and lightning), the sea level (you can flood to ankle height a plane, which means making an archipelago of islands that you can walk from one to another).

You also get blocks to build structures with like you do in forge. The key difference is that these are grouped by theme (palette) so that they match to the theme of your map. But if you can be creative, you can certainly combine them together. This means the limits of what you can do are pretty much boundless as they are in forge, but with greater cohesion to theme than anything I can imagine with forge. Imagine a palette of forerunner objects, another palette of spartan objects, and another of covenant objects, and all three of these available to you when you forge Ravine...

You can UNDO; you can move as a group a collection of objects within an adjustable radius. and I have just stumbled upon this last one, there are a number of tools I haven't touched yet.

What I have not figured out yet is how or if you can sink objects into the terrain. I have sunk a barrel into a wall of a building, but I don't know how to sink anything into the terrain yet (or if it is possible).

Clearly if 343i gave us an editor with these same set of features that I have covered already in just one hour of map editing, it would make a huge difference in the quality of maps we create, but also it would simply take longer to make those maps - there are so many things you need to do that are done for you in forge already.
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Re: THFE Far Cry 3 Video

mrgreenwithagun
In reply to this post by mrgreenwithagun
More...
I figured how to merge objects into the ground - you just have to get used to the controls... and look at the legend on the screen helps too!

There are a vast number of little items, like tables, chairs, lamps, fans, etc. There are so many items to look through that you feel compelled to "complete" your map with detail at the room level.

The game play is strikingly different than Halo. Where Halo is very smooth body motion, the FC3 body motion looks very much ancient technology - very jerky. The players turn something like 90 degrees between two consecutive frames - and I have yet to experience any frame rate degradation at all.

The palm trees I planted wave in the wind and you can see the shadows of the leaves moving along the ground - very realistic! Far better than the lighting feature in Halo 4.

As I do more I will share with you all. I just created my first map in about 4 hours. It isn't playable, but demonstrates some skill at editing. It is an island with trees, a hut, a few structures, a supply depot of sorts that can explode, a couple of boats and jet ski...
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